1 00:00:03,110 --> 00:00:01,990 an interesting thing happened to me the 2 00:00:06,789 --> 00:00:03,120 other day 3 00:00:09,190 --> 00:00:06,799 after a session in the tv studio 4 00:00:10,950 --> 00:00:09,200 when i was uh having a quick word to the 5 00:00:12,629 --> 00:00:10,960 audience as they were making their way 6 00:00:14,310 --> 00:00:12,639 out 7 00:00:16,950 --> 00:00:14,320 thanking them for coming along to see 8 00:00:18,230 --> 00:00:16,960 the the show being made 9 00:00:20,150 --> 00:00:18,240 and 10 00:00:21,349 --> 00:00:20,160 somebody was wondering why i was so 11 00:00:23,429 --> 00:00:21,359 skeptical 12 00:00:25,990 --> 00:00:23,439 especially since they've gone to see 13 00:00:28,870 --> 00:00:26,000 psychics live psychics live on stage at 14 00:00:31,029 --> 00:00:28,880 various places and have been convinced 15 00:00:33,270 --> 00:00:31,039 i thought for a moment and i put this to 16 00:00:35,750 --> 00:00:33,280 them which uh 17 00:00:38,869 --> 00:00:35,760 it seemed to seem to work it seemed to 18 00:00:41,190 --> 00:00:38,879 be a good uh analogy a good argument a 19 00:00:43,190 --> 00:00:41,200 good case to put forward 20 00:00:45,590 --> 00:00:43,200 so i'll tell you now 21 00:00:47,110 --> 00:00:45,600 in case you think it's a good case 22 00:00:51,190 --> 00:00:47,120 a good thing to say 23 00:00:54,470 --> 00:00:51,200 and possibly you could use this yourself 24 00:00:56,869 --> 00:00:54,480 so imagine i said to this guy 25 00:00:59,110 --> 00:00:56,879 imagine you went to see a world famous 26 00:01:00,310 --> 00:00:59,120 magician on stage instead of a psychic 27 00:01:02,069 --> 00:01:00,320 doing a 28 00:01:03,990 --> 00:01:02,079 reading in public 29 00:01:06,469 --> 00:01:04,000 and the magician made people float 30 00:01:07,750 --> 00:01:06,479 through the air rabbits appeared out of 31 00:01:09,670 --> 00:01:07,760 hats 32 00:01:10,789 --> 00:01:09,680 the chosen card that you picked from a 33 00:01:12,950 --> 00:01:10,799 deck and 34 00:01:14,070 --> 00:01:12,960 hid under your seat was 35 00:01:16,149 --> 00:01:14,080 magically 36 00:01:17,910 --> 00:01:16,159 transported to the stage all this sort 37 00:01:18,950 --> 00:01:17,920 of things 38 00:01:22,390 --> 00:01:18,960 typical 39 00:01:24,550 --> 00:01:22,400 classical conjuring tricks 40 00:01:25,749 --> 00:01:24,560 i said if you're just somebody off the 41 00:01:27,190 --> 00:01:25,759 street 42 00:01:29,830 --> 00:01:27,200 you wouldn't have a clue how those 43 00:01:32,789 --> 00:01:29,840 tricks worked you really wouldn't they 44 00:01:36,069 --> 00:01:32,799 would look like real magic and you could 45 00:01:37,749 --> 00:01:36,079 spend the rest of your life wondering 46 00:01:40,630 --> 00:01:37,759 how these tricks worked and you wouldn't 47 00:01:42,630 --> 00:01:40,640 figure it out 48 00:01:44,310 --> 00:01:42,640 does that mean that 49 00:01:45,749 --> 00:01:44,320 the magicians are 50 00:01:47,510 --> 00:01:45,759 really 51 00:01:49,749 --> 00:01:47,520 doing magic 52 00:01:51,350 --> 00:01:49,759 as in are they really bending or 53 00:01:54,710 --> 00:01:51,360 breaking the laws of physics do the 54 00:01:55,749 --> 00:01:54,720 rabbits really appear from nowhere or i 55 00:01:59,190 --> 00:01:55,759 said 56 00:02:01,030 --> 00:01:59,200 has the magician studied and practiced 57 00:02:03,510 --> 00:02:01,040 for years 58 00:02:05,590 --> 00:02:03,520 bought books or dvds 59 00:02:07,429 --> 00:02:05,600 gone to magic clubs learned from other 60 00:02:09,669 --> 00:02:07,439 magicians 61 00:02:10,710 --> 00:02:09,679 skills and techniques designed to fool 62 00:02:12,550 --> 00:02:10,720 you 63 00:02:14,550 --> 00:02:12,560 and we both know full well that the 64 00:02:17,030 --> 00:02:14,560 rabbit really doesn't appear out of 65 00:02:19,510 --> 00:02:17,040 nowhere that it's very cleverly hidden 66 00:02:21,670 --> 00:02:19,520 somewhere until it appears 67 00:02:24,550 --> 00:02:21,680 this guy said yes yes that's that's 68 00:02:26,949 --> 00:02:24,560 absolutely right of course 69 00:02:29,510 --> 00:02:26,959 and i said but 70 00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:29,520 then tell me how do the tricks work 71 00:02:33,750 --> 00:02:31,200 how do how does the magician make all 72 00:02:37,910 --> 00:02:33,760 these things happen 73 00:02:43,430 --> 00:02:41,270 imagine you're another magician 74 00:02:45,430 --> 00:02:43,440 in the same club one of the the group of 75 00:02:47,670 --> 00:02:45,440 magicians and you go along to see 76 00:02:49,670 --> 00:02:47,680 exactly the same act 77 00:02:50,630 --> 00:02:49,680 but you know you know how the tricks 78 00:02:52,550 --> 00:02:50,640 work 79 00:02:55,190 --> 00:02:52,560 you know that 80 00:02:56,630 --> 00:02:55,200 this moment in the performance 81 00:02:58,390 --> 00:02:56,640 while the magician is doing one thing 82 00:03:00,790 --> 00:02:58,400 he's really doing another 83 00:03:03,270 --> 00:03:00,800 you know where the rabbit may be 84 00:03:06,229 --> 00:03:03,280 and you know how the card gets from the 85 00:03:09,430 --> 00:03:06,239 seat to the stage and so on 86 00:03:11,350 --> 00:03:09,440 i said uh then you'd appreciate 87 00:03:13,110 --> 00:03:11,360 or you'd understand the performance from 88 00:03:14,790 --> 00:03:13,120 a completely different level 89 00:03:16,390 --> 00:03:14,800 you'd be looking out for when the tricks 90 00:03:19,110 --> 00:03:16,400 come along 91 00:03:21,990 --> 00:03:19,120 he said yes that's right 92 00:03:23,910 --> 00:03:22,000 and i said well for me 93 00:03:26,550 --> 00:03:23,920 seeing a psychic doing a psychic reading 94 00:03:29,030 --> 00:03:26,560 live on stage to an audience 95 00:03:33,589 --> 00:03:29,040 it's sort of like that 96 00:03:35,430 --> 00:03:33,599 learned the techniques i've learned this 97 00:03:37,670 --> 00:03:35,440 the tricks if you will 98 00:03:39,110 --> 00:03:37,680 i know what to look out for and i know 99 00:03:41,190 --> 00:03:39,120 what's happening 100 00:03:43,350 --> 00:03:41,200 when it's happening 101 00:03:45,190 --> 00:03:43,360 it's not your fault you don't know these 102 00:03:48,550 --> 00:03:45,200 tricks why the hell would you this is a 103 00:03:51,430 --> 00:03:48,560 really weird skill set to have 104 00:03:54,070 --> 00:03:51,440 so i said to him i'm not convinced 105 00:03:57,509 --> 00:03:54,080 by these things because when i see them 106 00:03:58,830 --> 00:03:57,519 i can see what's really going on 107 00:04:02,149 --> 00:03:58,840 and you know 108 00:04:03,110 --> 00:04:02,159 what to make a believer really stop and 109 00:04:04,869 --> 00:04:03,120 think 110 00:04:08,550 --> 00:04:04,879 using that analogy 111 00:04:12,630 --> 00:04:10,309 and uh 112 00:04:15,750 --> 00:04:12,640 it seemed to work very well 113 00:04:17,749 --> 00:04:15,760 on this occasion use it if you want to 114 00:04:23,430 --> 00:04:17,759 it worked for me 115 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:31,189 starts now 116 00:04:48,710 --> 00:04:33,830 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 117 00:04:54,070 --> 00:04:51,909 it's the 15th of july 2011 the day i fly 118 00:04:55,749 --> 00:04:54,080 out to tam las vegas 119 00:04:58,469 --> 00:04:55,759 very excited about that but i'm glad 120 00:05:00,310 --> 00:04:58,479 i've got the show up online before i 121 00:05:02,870 --> 00:05:00,320 leave the house 122 00:05:05,189 --> 00:05:02,880 coming up on this week's episode maynard 123 00:05:07,350 --> 00:05:05,199 spooky action 124 00:05:09,749 --> 00:05:07,360 this is an interesting one maynard talks 125 00:05:12,550 --> 00:05:09,759 to nicholas de patrizio from the 126 00:05:14,710 --> 00:05:12,560 university of california at irvine 127 00:05:18,310 --> 00:05:14,720 about a paper he's co-authored about the 128 00:05:22,390 --> 00:05:18,320 body's natural marijuana-like chemicals 129 00:05:24,070 --> 00:05:22,400 that make fatty foods hard to resist 130 00:05:25,590 --> 00:05:24,080 hmm 131 00:05:27,189 --> 00:05:25,600 that's why fatty foods are hard 132 00:05:29,110 --> 00:05:27,199 resistant 133 00:05:31,510 --> 00:05:29,120 really interesting research that has 134 00:05:33,510 --> 00:05:31,520 been carried on i wonder if they had to 135 00:05:36,070 --> 00:05:33,520 eat a lot of fatty foods to do this 136 00:05:37,350 --> 00:05:36,080 research i wonder if they gained like 20 137 00:05:39,350 --> 00:05:37,360 kilos each 138 00:05:42,550 --> 00:05:39,360 that's sort of research that uh i think 139 00:05:44,390 --> 00:05:42,560 we all can carry out from time to time 140 00:05:46,550 --> 00:05:44,400 very uh very interesting stuff that's 141 00:05:48,790 --> 00:05:46,560 coming up at the top of the show and 142 00:05:50,710 --> 00:05:48,800 after that we've got an interesting clip 143 00:05:52,310 --> 00:05:50,720 20 years ago 144 00:05:54,710 --> 00:05:52,320 on australian television there was a 145 00:05:56,870 --> 00:05:54,720 show called couchman which was a sort of 146 00:05:58,629 --> 00:05:56,880 like a donahue type chat sort of 147 00:06:01,350 --> 00:05:58,639 audience show 148 00:06:03,749 --> 00:06:01,360 and uh one day their topic for 149 00:06:06,469 --> 00:06:03,759 discussion was astrology 150 00:06:08,150 --> 00:06:06,479 it's so interesting i was uh looking 151 00:06:11,189 --> 00:06:08,160 through my archives the other day and i 152 00:06:13,350 --> 00:06:11,199 found this little clip from 20 years ago 153 00:06:15,909 --> 00:06:13,360 hear what the astrologers have to say to 154 00:06:17,749 --> 00:06:15,919 defend astrology and hear the skeptics 155 00:06:19,590 --> 00:06:17,759 chiming in as well skeptics in the 156 00:06:20,790 --> 00:06:19,600 audience 157 00:06:22,950 --> 00:06:20,800 and 158 00:06:25,270 --> 00:06:22,960 it's i love it when would give these 159 00:06:27,670 --> 00:06:25,280 people enough rope so to speak let them 160 00:06:30,469 --> 00:06:27,680 go let them try to explain 161 00:06:32,710 --> 00:06:30,479 their world view to us all coming up 162 00:06:34,469 --> 00:06:32,720 yeah about the middle of the show 163 00:06:37,590 --> 00:06:34,479 then to round off the show 164 00:06:39,670 --> 00:06:37,600 maynard's back again with me in tow this 165 00:06:41,270 --> 00:06:39,680 time as we both go to the supernova 166 00:06:42,790 --> 00:06:41,280 science fiction and fantasy convention 167 00:06:45,510 --> 00:06:42,800 here in sydney 168 00:06:47,749 --> 00:06:45,520 on the lookout for skeptics are there 169 00:06:49,350 --> 00:06:47,759 any skeptics wandering around these 170 00:06:50,469 --> 00:06:49,360 conventions well the answer is of course 171 00:06:51,510 --> 00:06:50,479 yes otherwise we wouldn't have the 172 00:06:54,390 --> 00:06:51,520 segment 173 00:06:55,670 --> 00:06:54,400 but it was a lot of fun as always that's 174 00:06:57,830 --> 00:06:55,680 always a lot of fun running around with 175 00:06:59,830 --> 00:06:57,840 maynard you have no idea 176 00:07:02,230 --> 00:06:59,840 the things that guy gets up to 177 00:07:04,230 --> 00:07:02,240 i could only just barely keep up but we 178 00:07:06,629 --> 00:07:04,240 did run into some skeptics so that's 179 00:07:09,430 --> 00:07:06,639 coming up right at the end of the show 180 00:07:10,550 --> 00:07:09,440 but for now i'm going to run downstairs 181 00:07:11,909 --> 00:07:10,560 and 182 00:07:13,990 --> 00:07:11,919 you know what 183 00:07:15,029 --> 00:07:14,000 i drank all the vodka 184 00:07:17,430 --> 00:07:15,039 the 185 00:07:20,230 --> 00:07:17,440 12 year old scotch is gone 186 00:07:23,430 --> 00:07:20,240 coffee ran out ah 187 00:07:25,830 --> 00:07:23,440 tap water oh yes 188 00:07:27,430 --> 00:07:25,840 i'm going to enjoy some tap water 189 00:07:44,070 --> 00:07:27,440 and i'll let you enjoy 190 00:07:52,390 --> 00:07:48,230 here's maynard's spooky action 191 00:07:56,070 --> 00:07:54,150 hey people at home are you feeling a bit 192 00:07:58,390 --> 00:07:56,080 hungry well we've got someone who might 193 00:08:00,230 --> 00:07:58,400 know why you're feeling hungry and why 194 00:08:03,110 --> 00:08:00,240 you really like that fatty food on the 195 00:08:04,869 --> 00:08:03,120 phone i've got nicolas de patricio phd 196 00:08:06,790 --> 00:08:04,879 post doctorate fellow department of 197 00:08:08,629 --> 00:08:06,800 pharmacology my favorite always my 198 00:08:11,029 --> 00:08:08,639 favorite department school of medicine 199 00:08:12,950 --> 00:08:11,039 university of california irvine is that 200 00:08:14,469 --> 00:08:12,960 have i got your title correct nicholas 201 00:08:16,950 --> 00:08:14,479 you've got it right you've been involved 202 00:08:18,869 --> 00:08:16,960 in a study that might open the door to 203 00:08:21,029 --> 00:08:18,879 finding out why we love our fatty food 204 00:08:22,869 --> 00:08:21,039 we all know we do what is your study 205 00:08:26,070 --> 00:08:22,879 discovered what we've discovered is that 206 00:08:28,390 --> 00:08:26,080 when fats touch the tongue fat specific 207 00:08:30,230 --> 00:08:28,400 not carbohydrates and not protein when 208 00:08:32,870 --> 00:08:30,240 the fats touch the tongue it elicits 209 00:08:34,949 --> 00:08:32,880 this response and releases these 210 00:08:37,350 --> 00:08:34,959 molecules called the endocannabinoids 211 00:08:39,829 --> 00:08:37,360 now the endocannabinoids are our natural 212 00:08:41,269 --> 00:08:39,839 marijuana-like chemicals so of course 213 00:08:42,790 --> 00:08:41,279 the receptors aren't there to get high 214 00:08:44,790 --> 00:08:42,800 from they're there to mediate some 215 00:08:46,870 --> 00:08:44,800 normal physiological function when the 216 00:08:49,990 --> 00:08:46,880 fat touches the tongue it releases these 217 00:08:52,550 --> 00:08:50,000 natural cannabinoids from the gi tract 218 00:08:55,910 --> 00:08:52,560 that bind the cannabinoid receptors in 219 00:08:58,230 --> 00:08:55,920 the small intestine and actually enhance 220 00:09:00,470 --> 00:08:58,240 your food intake so it promotes a 221 00:09:02,790 --> 00:09:00,480 positive feedback loop which will push 222 00:09:04,630 --> 00:09:02,800 you to consume more foods it's going to 223 00:09:06,470 --> 00:09:04,640 receptors in the stomach i would thought 224 00:09:08,389 --> 00:09:06,480 it would go to some in the brain and 225 00:09:09,829 --> 00:09:08,399 fire it off there well we're not saying 226 00:09:12,389 --> 00:09:09,839 that the brain 227 00:09:14,790 --> 00:09:12,399 does not serve a component in reward 228 00:09:17,829 --> 00:09:14,800 evaluation but what we've identified is 229 00:09:20,470 --> 00:09:17,839 this signal in the gut is critical for 230 00:09:23,110 --> 00:09:20,480 maintaining fat intake what we do is if 231 00:09:26,230 --> 00:09:23,120 we block that signal in a rodent model 232 00:09:28,550 --> 00:09:26,240 so pharmacologically going in bathing 233 00:09:30,310 --> 00:09:28,560 the intestine with an antagonist which 234 00:09:33,269 --> 00:09:30,320 is a fancy term for these little 235 00:09:35,590 --> 00:09:33,279 molecules that clog receptors then when 236 00:09:37,509 --> 00:09:35,600 we give the rat the fat to eat as we 237 00:09:39,509 --> 00:09:37,519 discovered already the endocannabinoids 238 00:09:41,430 --> 00:09:39,519 are being produced in the gut however 239 00:09:43,190 --> 00:09:41,440 they have nowhere to bind because the 240 00:09:44,790 --> 00:09:43,200 receptors are blocked and sure enough 241 00:09:46,870 --> 00:09:44,800 what happens as soon as you do that the 242 00:09:49,350 --> 00:09:46,880 animals stop eating the fat that's how 243 00:09:51,590 --> 00:09:49,360 we were able to identify physiologically 244 00:09:53,190 --> 00:09:51,600 that these these chemicals are critical 245 00:09:55,990 --> 00:09:53,200 because if you block their actions if 246 00:09:58,230 --> 00:09:56,000 you completely block food intake when 247 00:09:59,910 --> 00:09:58,240 will you be able to do research to on 248 00:10:01,990 --> 00:09:59,920 humans we're now providing the 249 00:10:04,470 --> 00:10:02,000 foundation you know to test to test in 250 00:10:06,150 --> 00:10:04,480 humans we're focusing on rodent models 251 00:10:08,230 --> 00:10:06,160 now and we're trying to now you know 252 00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:08,240 really nail down the foundation nail 253 00:10:12,310 --> 00:10:10,240 down the biochemical processes that are 254 00:10:14,069 --> 00:10:12,320 involved in that in order to do these 255 00:10:17,190 --> 00:10:14,079 sort of tests you have to use a rodent 256 00:10:19,110 --> 00:10:17,200 bottle and then the next step would be 257 00:10:20,949 --> 00:10:19,120 would be testing in humans what kind of 258 00:10:22,949 --> 00:10:20,959 sample size would you consider one to be 259 00:10:24,630 --> 00:10:22,959 significant for this study i'm not sure 260 00:10:26,949 --> 00:10:24,640 we haven't sat down and designed the 261 00:10:28,389 --> 00:10:26,959 experiment yet so it's a long process it 262 00:10:30,150 --> 00:10:28,399 takes you know a lot of time we need to 263 00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:30,160 make sure that everything is correct 264 00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:32,640 that's not my focus right now my focus 265 00:10:37,110 --> 00:10:34,720 is on making the discovery kind of 266 00:10:39,509 --> 00:10:37,120 creating that knowledge and then from 267 00:10:41,430 --> 00:10:39,519 there we go to the therapeutics which 268 00:10:43,910 --> 00:10:41,440 would then be tested of course in humans 269 00:10:46,310 --> 00:10:43,920 um we're not there yet now nicholas does 270 00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:46,320 this change existing knowledge about why 271 00:10:51,030 --> 00:10:48,560 we like fatty foods have you overturned 272 00:10:52,550 --> 00:10:51,040 a paradigm and people go wow you guys 273 00:10:54,710 --> 00:10:52,560 you've changed everything we thought 274 00:10:57,509 --> 00:10:54,720 about eating you know cannabinoids have 275 00:10:59,509 --> 00:10:57,519 been known for maybe a decade or so to 276 00:11:00,949 --> 00:10:59,519 really be you know modulating food 277 00:11:02,710 --> 00:11:00,959 intake it's been known for longer than 278 00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:02,720 that of course thousands of years people 279 00:11:07,430 --> 00:11:04,880 have talked about cannabis as increasing 280 00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:07,440 food intake what is new about this is 281 00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:10,240 that we've identified a critical area 282 00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:12,480 outside of the brain as you mentioned 283 00:11:15,030 --> 00:11:13,760 earlier 284 00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:15,040 previous work has shown that 285 00:11:19,829 --> 00:11:17,040 endocannabinoid activity within the 286 00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:19,839 brain in particular areas of reward 287 00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:21,839 centers and though cannabinoids there 288 00:11:24,949 --> 00:11:22,800 increase 289 00:11:27,350 --> 00:11:24,959 food intake the endocannabinoids are 290 00:11:29,269 --> 00:11:27,360 known to modulate taste properties this 291 00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:29,279 is the first series of studies that 292 00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:31,440 actually show a specific organ in the 293 00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:33,360 periphery that can be a potential 294 00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:35,519 therapeutic target for actually treating 295 00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:36,959 treating obesity which of course is 296 00:11:40,949 --> 00:11:38,640 going to lead to cardiovascular disease 297 00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:40,959 and diabetes yes i imagined have people 298 00:11:44,790 --> 00:11:42,720 like fizer knocking on your door pretty 299 00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:44,800 fast to uh manufacture something once 300 00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:46,800 this got to once you definitely had the 301 00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:48,640 proof there in humans how many years 302 00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:50,720 away do you think the proof it might be 303 00:11:54,790 --> 00:11:53,279 the process takes a while from bench to 304 00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:54,800 bedside i mean 305 00:11:58,310 --> 00:11:56,640 it's pure speculation usually it can 306 00:12:00,069 --> 00:11:58,320 take between seven and ten years but 307 00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:00,079 maybe five to ten years if it's on a 308 00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:02,800 faster track this has already been tried 309 00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:04,480 before so a lot of people have heard of 310 00:12:09,670 --> 00:12:06,800 acomplia which was which was approved in 311 00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:09,680 europe for treating for treating obesity 312 00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:11,440 and that's exactly what that molecule 313 00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:13,760 was a cb1 cannabinoid receptor 314 00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:15,760 antagonist so it blocked the body's 315 00:12:20,470 --> 00:12:18,000 natural endocannabinoids and in america 316 00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:20,480 it was up to stage three i believe 317 00:12:24,069 --> 00:12:22,160 clinical trials it was almost ready to 318 00:12:25,829 --> 00:12:24,079 go on the market and what unfortunately 319 00:12:26,870 --> 00:12:25,839 happened with this molecule 320 00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:26,880 was that 321 00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:29,600 in a larger population so in europe when 322 00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:31,200 they were actually prescribing this out 323 00:12:35,829 --> 00:12:32,959 into into the general population you 324 00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:35,839 would see increased risks for 325 00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:38,560 mood changes possible depression so the 326 00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:40,720 idea being if you may be predisposed to 327 00:12:46,389 --> 00:12:43,440 a depression or even suicidal ideations 328 00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:46,399 you may this may push you over the edge 329 00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:48,880 so messing with mood we also know that 330 00:12:52,629 --> 00:12:50,480 endocannabinoids don't only regulate 331 00:12:55,110 --> 00:12:52,639 food intake they regulate mood and how 332 00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:55,120 they regulate mood is within the brain 333 00:12:59,430 --> 00:12:57,120 that's why this new series of studies 334 00:13:01,750 --> 00:12:59,440 are very important because you can now 335 00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:01,760 design molecules that block endocrine 336 00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:03,760 block the cannabinoid receptors but they 337 00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:06,000 don't need to cross into the brain we're 338 00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:08,240 able to block that without the drugs 339 00:13:12,310 --> 00:13:10,320 crossing into the brain does this mean 340 00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:12,320 you've also nicholas got an even 341 00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:14,160 stronger connection now between the 342 00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:17,040 bucket bong and the munchies 343 00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:19,200 i'm not sure what the first term um you 344 00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:22,480 you said um refers to but the munchies 345 00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:25,279 absolutely i believe that um this is one 346 00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:27,440 of the targets of cannabis like i'm not 347 00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:28,880 saying it's the only target remember 348 00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:30,639 these receptors are all throughout the 349 00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:32,720 body someone ingests cannabis it gives 350 00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:34,639 this munchy effect kind of pushes you to 351 00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:36,399 eat these foods maybe make them taste a 352 00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:38,160 little bit better of course they're 353 00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:40,000 binding the system in the gut but 354 00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:42,320 remember the cycloactive ingredient thc 355 00:13:46,470 --> 00:13:43,920 and cannabis also crosses the 356 00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:46,480 blood-brain barrier so they also block 357 00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:48,399 receptors within the brain 358 00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:50,399 so cannabis is likely not only working 359 00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:52,720 on this gut system in the gut to promote 360 00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:54,240 this positive feedback loop but it's 361 00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:56,480 also acting on central circuits as well 362 00:14:00,150 --> 00:13:57,680 we're talking with a nicholas de 363 00:14:02,550 --> 00:14:00,160 patrizio phd postdoc fellow at the 364 00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:02,560 department of pharmacology now nicholas 365 00:14:06,389 --> 00:14:04,959 what other areas of science would you 366 00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:06,399 like to be someone doing a bit of work 367 00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:07,440 in at the moment because you're 368 00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,519 obviously in this dietary area you're 369 00:14:12,949 --> 00:14:11,279 very obsessed with that is there sort of 370 00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:12,959 a related discipline you'd like to see 371 00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:14,880 someone do work in that could you know 372 00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:16,560 complement what you're doing well i'm 373 00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:18,560 really interested in trying to combine 374 00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:20,880 new technologies with all this i'm 375 00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:22,800 really interested in these certain 376 00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:24,880 technologies that can quantify and tell 377 00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:26,800 you what lipids are there and the 378 00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:29,519 imagine the amount of them um i really 379 00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:32,480 see this technology advancing um over 380 00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:35,120 the next you know 10 20 years i'd like 381 00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:37,760 to start to really begin to look 382 00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:40,000 throughout the brain and sort of map the 383 00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:40,959 brain 384 00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:43,120 and see how can endocannabinoid levels 385 00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:46,399 really small subnuclei in small areas of 386 00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:48,079 the brain how are they possibly 387 00:14:52,470 --> 00:14:50,639 regulating food intake and reward i 388 00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:52,480 really wanted to to use these new 389 00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:54,320 technologies and nicholas has this 390 00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:56,560 changed the way you eat because you even 391 00:14:59,829 --> 00:14:58,240 know more exactly what's going on inside 392 00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:59,839 your body when you get stuck into that 393 00:15:03,189 --> 00:15:01,360 ice cream there has it changed the way 394 00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:03,199 you eat it all that's a good question 395 00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:04,959 myself has it changed 396 00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:07,839 i'm not a huge real fatty eater to be 397 00:15:13,269 --> 00:15:10,000 honest with you you're assault guy a 398 00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:13,279 savory guy to be honest i prefer the 399 00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:15,680 fats and the salt more than the sugars 400 00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:17,040 now nicholas i'll just ask you a 401 00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:18,720 political question before we go and you 402 00:15:22,629 --> 00:15:20,320 and as a scientist you don't have to 403 00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:22,639 answer this as far as california 404 00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:24,880 decriminalizing marijuana use how do you 405 00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:27,920 feel about that it's a tough question 406 00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:30,079 cannabis has a lot of therapeutic 407 00:15:33,750 --> 00:15:32,079 benefits the problem with cannabis is 408 00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:33,760 that as i said it binds all these 409 00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:35,440 receptors throughout the entire body and 410 00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:37,440 you get this side effect which is the 411 00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:40,480 psychoactive effect right the high so to 412 00:15:45,750 --> 00:15:42,639 say that's not really good medicine to 413 00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,760 disrupt driving skills for example the 414 00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:47,360 short answer to your question or the 415 00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:50,000 long answer is cannabis probably isn't 416 00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,639 the best medicine however now let's 417 00:15:57,030 --> 00:15:54,720 compare this to other drugs for example 418 00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:57,040 like opioids or oxycontins or these 419 00:16:00,710 --> 00:15:58,480 these synthetic 420 00:16:03,189 --> 00:16:00,720 opioids those drugs are horrible and 421 00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:03,199 have horrible side effects cannabis on 422 00:16:07,910 --> 00:16:05,680 the other hand you have very very few of 423 00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:07,920 these effects so it's a much in my 424 00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:11,199 opinion it'd be far far safer yes we're 425 00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:12,880 having a big chow down at lunch or 426 00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:15,440 dinner on a nice fatty again ice cream 427 00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:17,120 or something that's mmm yummy what 428 00:16:20,550 --> 00:16:18,720 should we be thinking is going on how 429 00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:20,560 can we put picture that in our mind as 430 00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:21,680 our final image of what you've 431 00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:23,279 discovered there at the university of 432 00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:25,199 california irvine the easiest way to 433 00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:27,040 conceptualize this is you imagine i 434 00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:28,480 don't know if over there you guys had 435 00:16:32,069 --> 00:16:30,480 this saying called you can't eat just 436 00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:32,079 one chip and you can kind of make the 437 00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:34,320 analogy with french fries as well when 438 00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:36,320 you taste that first potato chip or that 439 00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:38,639 first french fry why do you want to 440 00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:40,480 continue to eat that whole bag and that 441 00:16:44,389 --> 00:16:42,240 whole plate of french fries as soon as 442 00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:44,399 that first french fire chip touches the 443 00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:46,639 tongue releases the natural 444 00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:49,040 marijuana-like chemicals in the gut and 445 00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:50,880 makes you want to eat more of those 446 00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:52,959 fatty foods and it's an evolutionarily 447 00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:54,720 conserved behavior as well we're all 448 00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:56,320 still in a feast or family we have an 449 00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:58,079 evolved pest basically being on the 450 00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:00,959 savannah it's a feast or famine state so 451 00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:02,880 fat has more than twice the amount of 452 00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:05,280 energy contained in it than protein or 453 00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:07,120 carbohydrate does so it's pretty 454 00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:09,120 advantageous for you to over consume 455 00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:11,360 these foods in the savannah or in a 456 00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:13,439 feast and famine condition unfortunately 457 00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:15,120 now in industrialized more modern 458 00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:17,439 societies we have access to those fats 459 00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:19,120 right around the corner we can go eat as 460 00:17:23,669 --> 00:17:21,439 many as we want what actually stops it 461 00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:23,679 is that when the uh receptor runs out of 462 00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:25,839 uh chemical descend because that's what 463 00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:28,079 all because we our gut becomes full or 464 00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:29,440 because we notice we're getting really 465 00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:31,440 fat and unattractive to others when the 466 00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:33,840 fat touches the tongue endocannabinoid 467 00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:35,840 levels spike and drive you to eat more 468 00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:37,760 of it once you've had enough calories 469 00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:40,240 and the food then goes into the small 470 00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:42,880 intestine again just hypothesizing here 471 00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:44,799 and we still have to test this it's very 472 00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:47,039 likely that the endocannabinoid levels 473 00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:50,000 may drop terminating the meal so the 474 00:17:53,590 --> 00:17:51,760 endocannabinoids may actually be at the 475 00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:53,600 seat of both of these both of these 476 00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:55,280 phenomena i'm getting the munchies just 477 00:17:58,630 --> 00:17:56,640 even talking to you nicholas it's been 478 00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:58,640 great chatting to you 479 00:18:02,230 --> 00:18:00,480 i look forward to hearing more about 480 00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:02,240 your research in the future and nick the 481 00:18:05,909 --> 00:18:04,080 next phase it moves on to because one 482 00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:05,919 day we may be able to eat as much as we 483 00:18:09,350 --> 00:18:07,760 like and not get fat isn't that isn't 484 00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,360 that selfish 485 00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:11,600 i know isn't it selfish 486 00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:13,200 well we live once and we want to enjoy 487 00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:14,799 our life right is there a website or 488 00:18:17,909 --> 00:18:16,480 somewhere where people could go to uh 489 00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:17,919 look at the results and about your 490 00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:19,440 research this is published in the 491 00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:21,840 proceedings of the national academy of 492 00:18:27,909 --> 00:18:24,720 sciences the usa version um so they can 493 00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:27,919 go online the acronym is p n p-n-a-s 494 00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:29,280 that's the journal that it's published 495 00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:30,720 in you can go to university of 496 00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:33,520 california irvine school of medicine and 497 00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:34,960 there you'll find our department of 498 00:18:38,549 --> 00:18:37,120 pharmacology and you can you can log on 499 00:18:39,909 --> 00:18:38,559 there and look at a bunch of the 500 00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:39,919 research that's been done there's a 501 00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:40,880 posting 502 00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:43,440 about the specific specific study on 503 00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:02,310 this is eugenie scott national center 504 00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:05,360 for science education you can find us at 505 00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:11,110 come see us if you want to know anything 506 00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:13,360 about the creationism and evolution 507 00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:15,919 conflict in the united states or 508 00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:17,840 more is the pity internationally these 509 00:19:22,950 --> 00:19:19,760 days we are a clearinghouse for 510 00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:22,960 information on this vexing but certainly 511 00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:24,880 very interesting problem 512 00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:36,470 and now we travel back to the uh 513 00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:40,000 wonderful year of 1992 almost 20 years 514 00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:42,400 ago when abc television here in 515 00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:44,720 australia ran a program called couchman 516 00:19:48,470 --> 00:19:46,160 which was an 517 00:19:49,750 --> 00:19:48,480 interactive type audience show 518 00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,760 in the audience 519 00:19:54,029 --> 00:19:51,360 on this occasion 520 00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:54,039 were a number of australia's leading 521 00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:55,919 astrologers 522 00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:57,840 and some leading skeptics including 523 00:20:02,470 --> 00:20:00,720 barry williams and ian bryce who you'll 524 00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:02,480 hear later one of the leading 525 00:20:06,549 --> 00:20:04,320 astrologers you'll hear soon is milton 526 00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:06,559 black who's still doing astrology 527 00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:08,960 now he makes very bold and 528 00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:10,880 brassy predictions about 529 00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:13,200 his accuracy in predicting election 530 00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:15,200 outcomes in australia 531 00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:17,120 and at one stage you'll hear him say 532 00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:18,720 keating has gone 533 00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:20,400 implying that the prime minister then 534 00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:22,080 prime minister paul keating would lose 535 00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:24,240 the next federal election which was 536 00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:25,679 widely expected 537 00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:26,960 as it happens 538 00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:30,000 for keating won that election bear that 539 00:20:39,190 --> 00:20:32,080 in mind as we take you back 540 00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:41,750 i was just interested dr william gray 541 00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:44,720 who's at the anu has done a couple of 542 00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:46,960 surveys to try and determine how many 543 00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:49,039 people in australia do take astrology 544 00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:50,400 seriously now 545 00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:52,080 i was intrigued to discover the surveys 546 00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:54,000 were four years apart and between 547 00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:55,440 surveys 548 00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:57,360 you found that the number of people who 549 00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:00,000 said yes i do believe in astrology had 550 00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:03,919 nearly doubled yes in 1986 87 we found 551 00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:05,600 about 16 552 00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:08,320 uh were inclined to accept astrology and 553 00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:09,840 it seems to have jumped fairly 554 00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:12,480 significantly to about 29 555 00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:14,720 uh now why in the last four years would 556 00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:16,960 so many more people suddenly decide that 557 00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:18,320 they believe in astrology does it have 558 00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:20,240 anything to do with the economic times 559 00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:23,200 we're going through that's a possible 560 00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:25,679 cause for it i'm really uncertain as to 561 00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:27,360 what motivates people to believe in 562 00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:28,799 astrology 563 00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:32,480 we have certainly uh the evidence that 564 00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:34,960 women are much more inclined to accept 565 00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:36,799 astrology than men 566 00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:43,270 sensitivity somebody said 567 00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:44,960 well uh 568 00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:46,880 various conjectures have been offered 569 00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:48,960 for that one is that perhaps 570 00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:52,320 uh astrology and a lot of the uh psychic 571 00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:54,320 and mystical belief systems 572 00:22:00,870 --> 00:21:58,080 uh provide a an alternative to 573 00:22:03,510 --> 00:22:00,880 science-based world views which perhaps 574 00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:03,520 have a very unattractive macho male 575 00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:06,080 gender stereotype that's uh one 576 00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:08,000 possibility but it's pretty arm waving 577 00:22:12,310 --> 00:22:09,840 speculative stuff 578 00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:12,320 another possibility is that women in 579 00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:15,840 general uh find their lives for various 580 00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:16,960 reasons 581 00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:19,360 uh subject to forces outside their 582 00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:21,840 control and it may be that people who 583 00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:23,679 don't have a high degree of autonomy in 584 00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:27,520 their lives are also inclined to uh 585 00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:29,760 suspect that there are outside forces 586 00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:31,760 controlling their destiny but would you 587 00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,760 say that women are perhaps a little bit 588 00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:35,760 more intuitive than men and can 589 00:22:40,149 --> 00:22:37,600 understand the qualities of astrology 590 00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:40,159 and psychic phenomena i know no proof to 591 00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:42,320 establish that at all i'm afraid so see 592 00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:43,440 the other thing that came out of these 593 00:22:48,149 --> 00:22:45,120 surveys that i found really interesting 594 00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:48,159 was that the belief in astrology was in 595 00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:49,760 inverse proportion to the level of 596 00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:51,200 education so in other words the more 597 00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:53,440 educated you were the less likely you 598 00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:55,039 were to take it seriously i'd have to 599 00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:00,950 can i unfortunately well i'll just 600 00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:04,000 expand on that momentarily if i may uh 601 00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:06,320 there were three very firm correlations 602 00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:08,640 that came out of the survey and they are 603 00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:11,280 pretty strong there is an age-related 604 00:23:15,110 --> 00:23:13,360 correlation there is an education 605 00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:15,120 related correlation and there's a gender 606 00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:16,960 related correlation now there does seem 607 00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:19,760 to be some truth in the old adage older 608 00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:22,080 and wiser that the older people get the 609 00:23:26,390 --> 00:23:23,840 more skeptical they become the less 610 00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:26,400 inclined they are to accept that the 611 00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:28,480 planets do affect their destinies in any 612 00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:31,840 way education is the most dramatic and 613 00:23:36,549 --> 00:23:33,840 the strongest influence the more 614 00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:36,559 education people have consumed the less 615 00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:38,640 likely they are to accept that the 616 00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:40,640 planets affect their destiny and have to 617 00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:43,200 dispute that 618 00:23:48,789 --> 00:23:46,240 the reason well 99 so i say this most of 619 00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:48,799 my personal clientele are politicians 620 00:23:59,270 --> 00:23:56,789 it sounds very hilarious in today's 621 00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:59,280 times but i have doctors of philosophy 622 00:24:03,430 --> 00:24:01,600 that come to see me i have medical 623 00:24:05,909 --> 00:24:03,440 practitioners that come to see me i have 624 00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:05,919 barristers and solicitors i have 625 00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:08,480 businessmen very well known businessmen 626 00:24:13,350 --> 00:24:10,880 in this country and i also have 627 00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:13,360 housewives and students so i have a wide 628 00:24:17,590 --> 00:24:15,200 variety of people that visit me 629 00:24:19,510 --> 00:24:17,600 personally now for you to make that 630 00:24:21,750 --> 00:24:19,520 statement i would have to say you're 631 00:24:23,669 --> 00:24:21,760 wrong no look hang on i'm not saying 632 00:24:25,909 --> 00:24:23,679 that these people your clients have not 633 00:24:27,830 --> 00:24:25,919 got a high level of education all i 634 00:24:30,549 --> 00:24:27,840 would be asserting is that they are in a 635 00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:30,559 very small minority of those educated 636 00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:32,640 people who accept the truth in astrology 637 00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:34,559 yes the lady behind me yes you're 638 00:24:39,110 --> 00:24:35,919 wanting to say something again are we 639 00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:39,120 speaking of pop astrology uh that the 640 00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:42,080 survey was made on or on astrology 641 00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:44,240 serious astrology the survey was couched 642 00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:45,760 in very general terms it was simply 643 00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:47,520 people were simply asking questions 644 00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:48,880 respond to the question do you believe 645 00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:50,480 in astrology it was as simple as that 646 00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:52,880 when the president of america has well 647 00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:55,360 known become someone who has gone to an 648 00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:57,679 astrologer that people in high positions 649 00:25:02,230 --> 00:24:59,679 don't use astrology i mean that is a man 650 00:25:04,149 --> 00:25:02,240 with incredible worldly power all right 651 00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:04,159 lots of people may not put down on their 652 00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:06,400 survey that they go to astrologers or 653 00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:08,720 read astrology because it has a social 654 00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,799 stigma it's not something that a lot of 655 00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:12,720 people want to run around and say i'm a 656 00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:14,640 great success because i go to an 657 00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:16,960 astrologer so therefore people are very 658 00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:19,039 closeted it's a very personal very 659 00:25:23,029 --> 00:25:20,720 intimate subject and i don't think 660 00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:23,039 surveys are the way to judge who does it 661 00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:25,200 who reads it the way to judge who reads 662 00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:27,520 them is to see people who do know their 663 00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:29,600 star sign and can say things like peter 664 00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,840 said when he began the show they wrote 665 00:25:35,029 --> 00:25:33,520 write it off like they know it all so 666 00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:35,039 well i think the surveys are interesting 667 00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:36,880 in that they give us a broad indication 668 00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:38,559 as to how the population reacts to 669 00:25:42,870 --> 00:25:40,080 certain subjects you see the other thing 670 00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:42,880 the uh the survey told us was that about 671 00:25:46,310 --> 00:25:44,480 a quarter of the population reads the 672 00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:46,320 columns and about a half of them take it 673 00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:48,720 seriously doctor can i just uh rephrase 674 00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:51,440 it to about specialized astrology now i 675 00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:53,679 specialize in political astrology that's 676 00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:56,240 my forte i'm very good at it i've 677 00:26:01,510 --> 00:25:58,000 predicted every state and federal 678 00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:01,520 election since 1974 including this last 679 00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:07,750 i've gone further than that i've gone 680 00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:08,960 seats 681 00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:10,720 now in this last prediction for the 682 00:26:15,909 --> 00:26:14,240 tasmanian election and i can remember uh 683 00:26:18,070 --> 00:26:15,919 saying this to the media but also to a 684 00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:18,080 local member of parliament at a function 685 00:26:21,590 --> 00:26:20,000 that i set on the friday night prior to 686 00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:21,600 the saturday's election 687 00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:23,840 i said there'll be a minimum of 19 seats 688 00:26:28,789 --> 00:26:26,960 and a maximum of 21 to the liberal party 689 00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:28,799 now i go down to seats i just don't say 690 00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:31,039 the liberals are going to win the labor 691 00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:32,640 parties but now milton do you do your 692 00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:34,720 predictions after you've read the polls 693 00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:36,000 no i do them 694 00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:37,039 can you give us a tip for the next 695 00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:39,200 federal elections yes keating's gone you 696 00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:41,039 know so but i'll give you more details 697 00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:43,520 on that later 698 00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:45,200 people in australia are saying that but 699 00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:46,799 i will give you the seats 700 00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:48,559 well give us a seat no not at the moment 701 00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:50,080 not at the moment i haven't i haven't 702 00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:52,000 it's still we've got till march next 703 00:26:56,789 --> 00:26:54,880 year now september of this year is where 704 00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:56,799 we're going to see things well from to 705 00:27:00,950 --> 00:26:58,799 be precise the 12th of august you'll 706 00:27:03,029 --> 00:27:00,960 start seeing keating warming up wanting 707 00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:03,039 perhaps to run an early election but i'm 708 00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:06,159 leaving that to my media outlets because 709 00:27:10,149 --> 00:27:07,679 that's where i make my predictions 710 00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:10,159 that's what i get paid for and of course 711 00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:12,480 uh i will certainly let you know my 712 00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:13,760 predictions 713 00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:16,400 in future okay look let's get down to 10 714 00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:18,480 tax here because there's one 715 00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:20,559 very basic question that i'd really like 716 00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:22,480 to hear you discuss and that is why 717 00:27:27,029 --> 00:27:24,559 should the position of the planets 718 00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:27,039 have any influence on how we turn out to 719 00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:28,640 be on our personalities on our 720 00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:30,480 characters even the 721 00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:32,159 choice of occupation that we might make 722 00:27:36,390 --> 00:27:34,240 what might happen in our lives why 723 00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:36,400 should that be can anyone explain that 724 00:27:45,029 --> 00:27:37,760 for me 725 00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:47,269 the answer to that's very simple peter 726 00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:48,960 the forces that govern the universe are 727 00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:51,200 quite well known and they have been for 728 00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:53,600 about half a century and that the forces 729 00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:54,960 do not account for any of those 730 00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:57,120 interactions the planets do not affect 731 00:28:07,110 --> 00:27:59,039 our personalities and the events that 732 00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:08,789 how the position of the planets at the 733 00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:10,720 time of our birth might in any way 734 00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:12,799 affect what sort of people we are well 735 00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:14,640 peter i think that first of all the 736 00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:16,640 purpose of astrology is not to foretell 737 00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:18,320 the future 738 00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:20,960 no one exactly what you claim to do no 739 00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:22,720 it is not what we claim to do it's what 740 00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:24,880 you people keep claiming we do we don't 741 00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:26,720 just listen to an astrologer for 30 742 00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:28,880 seconds yeah okay just explain why the 743 00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:30,720 position of the planet should in any way 744 00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:33,520 influence our personalities the position 745 00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:35,679 of the planets when we're talking about 746 00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:37,840 the the solar system 747 00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:39,760 the most important thing in the solar 748 00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:42,000 system is the sun 749 00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:45,120 you switch off that sun 750 00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:47,600 you've got a heap of rocks 751 00:28:52,389 --> 00:28:49,120 having said that 752 00:28:53,909 --> 00:28:52,399 there are four major seasons 753 00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:53,919 summer 754 00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:57,039 autumn winter spring 755 00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:00,320 a plant that will grow in the spring 756 00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:03,120 will not grow in the summer 757 00:29:07,510 --> 00:29:06,399 i won't bore you it goes on 758 00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:07,520 there are 759 00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:09,200 well we're ordering no i think i think i 760 00:29:24,789 --> 00:29:22,870 arthur bowman will tell you that 761 00:29:27,669 --> 00:29:24,799 every time 762 00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:27,679 in the universe is 763 00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:29,360 putting its stamp 764 00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:32,080 impeccably and forever on every part of 765 00:29:36,389 --> 00:29:34,159 that universe that started at that 766 00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:36,399 moment including people 767 00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:40,080 a winter child is like a winter flower a 768 00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:42,399 summer child is like a summer flower we 769 00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:43,760 are different 770 00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:46,000 i take a step i'm different to the 771 00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:47,919 person who has one step behind me and 772 00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:49,440 different again to the person on either 773 00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:50,720 side of me 774 00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:53,679 the thing that makes astrology work best 775 00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:55,679 is free will 776 00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:57,919 free will because you can have 777 00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:00,960 50 000 people born at the same instant 778 00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:03,360 under the same planetary influences and 779 00:30:07,269 --> 00:30:06,000 they exercising their god-given free 780 00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:07,279 will 781 00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:13,279 decisions and each one of them can be 782 00:30:16,149 --> 00:30:14,399 right 783 00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:16,159 for you yes but hold on a minute does 784 00:30:20,549 --> 00:30:17,760 that mean that all those people who were 785 00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:20,559 born at the same minute that i was 786 00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:23,360 uh also all those things that i am you 787 00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:24,880 know on the bad days malicious 788 00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:27,360 pessimistic and selfish and uh yes but 789 00:30:31,990 --> 00:30:29,840 they've got a pretty logical twin like a 790 00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:32,000 person born on the same hospital around 791 00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:33,360 about the same time as you would have a 792 00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:35,760 similar experience or life pattern 793 00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:37,760 but does that mean by by by that 794 00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:39,200 definition the grey's just given us we 795 00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:42,559 should be almost identical personalities 796 00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:44,240 because we're taking into account the 797 00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:46,000 genetic processes 798 00:30:51,029 --> 00:30:48,720 that arrive from the two family lines 799 00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:51,039 that a conception then meet and that 800 00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:52,720 individual is obviously going to display 801 00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:54,960 a lot of those genetic processes and is 802 00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:56,960 the environmental influences acting on 803 00:31:01,590 --> 00:30:58,880 those genetic processes which is going 804 00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:01,600 to make that person what they are 805 00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:03,039 what they're saying is cop out from what 806 00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:04,720 they're claiming i mean they're giving 807 00:31:09,269 --> 00:31:07,679 you all the only fell back today 808 00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:09,279 can't the skeptics have to say isn't it 809 00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:11,279 allowed no everything 810 00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:13,360 they start about 811 00:31:17,510 --> 00:31:15,760 about free will free will yes yes well 812 00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:17,520 that isn't that denying the whole basis 813 00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:20,080 of your load of rubbish you talk about 814 00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:21,760 okay wait a minute go ahead barry mate 815 00:31:24,789 --> 00:31:23,760 was denying all these influences make 816 00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:24,799 your point 817 00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:26,399 i will use it this way 818 00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:28,640 i can use this chair like that or i can 819 00:31:39,909 --> 00:31:37,909 what was your point barry what are you 820 00:31:41,669 --> 00:31:39,919 going to say look the point is they make 821 00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:41,679 a statement about this influence they 822 00:31:45,110 --> 00:31:44,000 have and then for the rest of the five 823 00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:45,120 minutes they've been talking i've been 824 00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:46,960 giving you the outs from it so that when 825 00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:48,640 it doesn't work for you well it might be 826 00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:50,080 a genetic influence or it might be a 827 00:31:52,310 --> 00:31:51,279 free will or it might be anything else i 828 00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:52,320 mean 829 00:31:57,509 --> 00:31:55,360 will 830 00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:57,519 why do you have to then overlay your 831 00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:00,799 free will with this absolute crime 832 00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:02,880 hold on hold on break this up i'm gonna 833 00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:17,990 hi this is michael cruz from the 834 00:32:20,950 --> 00:32:19,039 committee for the advancement of 835 00:32:22,549 --> 00:32:20,960 scientific skepticism at the center for 836 00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:22,559 inquiry canada 837 00:32:25,909 --> 00:32:23,760 cass is committed to critically 838 00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:25,919 examining scientific technological and 839 00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:27,440 medical claims in the public forum 840 00:32:30,789 --> 00:32:28,799 across canada 841 00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:30,799 working with our expert advisors local 842 00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:33,200 cfi branches and other skeptical groups 843 00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:34,480 cass confronts the peddlers of 844 00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:36,240 pseudoscience with evidence-based 845 00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:38,000 scientific inquiry 846 00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:39,760 2010 has been a watershed year for the 847 00:32:44,070 --> 00:32:42,159 skeptical movement in canada and in 2011 848 00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:44,080 cass will continue fighting bad science 849 00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:46,080 in the media and the government 850 00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:47,519 if you would like to become involved in 851 00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:48,880 the fight to promote critical thinking 852 00:32:51,909 --> 00:32:50,640 in canada or if you have a concern about 853 00:32:54,789 --> 00:32:51,919 the spread of pseudoscience in the 854 00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:54,799 canadian media please contact us at cass 855 00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:57,600 cfi canada dot ca you can also follow us 856 00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:00,720 on twitter at cficass and on facebook at 857 00:33:05,269 --> 00:33:03,200 cass at center for inquiry canada 858 00:33:18,310 --> 00:33:05,279 cass fighting pseudoscience without 859 00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:20,630 welcome to supernova 2011. it's all 860 00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:22,159 happening all the fans are here all the 861 00:33:27,230 --> 00:33:23,760 geeks are here all the big stars are 862 00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:27,240 here and well i'm here too supernova 863 00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:29,120 2011. 864 00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:30,880 look who we got here 865 00:33:34,389 --> 00:33:32,880 it's a skeptic but he's not a skeptic 866 00:33:36,149 --> 00:33:34,399 he's actually dressed as some guy with 867 00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:36,159 superpowers that an idiot wearing a tie 868 00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:38,080 and a leather jacket hasn't got it's 869 00:33:42,149 --> 00:33:40,399 brett how are you brett from the hunter 870 00:33:43,509 --> 00:33:42,159 we don't like religion so much i mean we 871 00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:43,519 should think about the contradictions in 872 00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:45,840 the bible society yes there you go you 873 00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:46,880 should get a shorter name for that 874 00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:48,000 society 875 00:33:52,149 --> 00:33:50,080 a shorter name yes well atheist 876 00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:52,159 agnostics anti-theist society is a bit 877 00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:53,679 of a mouthful so we do just shorten it 878 00:33:56,789 --> 00:33:55,120 to a3 879 00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:56,799 like hey go easy on the god isn't that 880 00:34:02,870 --> 00:33:59,120 your uh theme well 881 00:34:05,269 --> 00:34:02,880 yeah like the club itself likes to be uh 882 00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:05,279 we just like to discuss ideas and we 883 00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:07,360 encourage the members to be as nasty or 884 00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:09,119 as nice to religion as they like but we 885 00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:10,399 do encourage people to have a think 886 00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:12,720 about it yeah i know so i always get 887 00:34:16,149 --> 00:34:14,399 sidetracked by this issue because i just 888 00:34:17,829 --> 00:34:16,159 theology just fascinates me both people 889 00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:17,839 that are into it and aren't into it so i 890 00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:19,200 won't get sidetracked i'll just let's 891 00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:20,720 just have a look around because 892 00:34:25,430 --> 00:34:23,520 very much as you would say we are 893 00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:25,440 like the bible completely existing in a 894 00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:26,639 fictional world here aren't we 895 00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:28,240 everything here is based on wonderful 896 00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:30,720 fiction yeah pretty much i'd look around 897 00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:33,280 and i'd say at least half or more than 898 00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:34,639 half of the people 899 00:34:37,990 --> 00:34:37,280 aren't dressed as normal humans 900 00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:38,000 yeah 901 00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:39,040 and this is what i would normally be 902 00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:40,399 wearing this time of day anyway there 903 00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:41,359 and the thing is we haven't tried to 904 00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:42,480 figure out what kind of character i 905 00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:45,760 might be yeah actually um that's that's 906 00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,240 i mean the jacket looks great the red 907 00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:50,639 tie it's brilliant it could fit into an 908 00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:52,000 anime somewhere we just need to find 909 00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:53,760 which one yeah i was thinking like i 910 00:34:58,230 --> 00:34:56,159 said john travolta after he was shot in 911 00:34:59,510 --> 00:34:58,240 pulp fiction yeah yeah 912 00:35:01,270 --> 00:34:59,520 yeah the body in the back they had to 913 00:35:02,710 --> 00:35:01,280 take the harvard hotel space something 914 00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:02,720 like that just a few ideas to come top 915 00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:04,480 my head but let's tell us i'm going to 916 00:35:09,589 --> 00:35:06,400 step back tell us about your character 917 00:35:11,349 --> 00:35:09,599 all right well my name is ganondorf i am 918 00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:11,359 the king of evil from the legend of 919 00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:14,560 zelda um i come from the desert i lead a 920 00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:17,280 band of thieves i broke into the king's 921 00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:19,680 castle and stole the triforce which is a 922 00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:22,320 power left by the gods to give people 923 00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:24,240 whatever wish they want 924 00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:27,760 wow so so george hamilton's not in that 925 00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:29,440 not that i know when you say the legend 926 00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:30,960 of zelda i thought george hamilton would 927 00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:33,040 have to be in that but he's a tan i'm 928 00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:34,640 i'm sorry i'm unfamiliar with george 929 00:35:38,069 --> 00:35:36,400 hamilton oh yeah you see i'm i'm just 930 00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:38,079 bringing 931 00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,160 the guy from the steampunk 18th century 932 00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:42,240 walks into these things and he i i know 933 00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:44,400 not of young people and their tales 934 00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:45,200 yeah 935 00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:46,560 but we can all agree on one thing the 936 00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:48,000 tom baker exhibition the tom baker 937 00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:49,680 exhibition down there is hot yeah 938 00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:51,520 definitely definitely and the other 939 00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:53,680 thing we'd all agree on and i really 940 00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:55,760 enjoyed getting this across to here and 941 00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:56,880 people that don't come to these kind of 942 00:36:00,310 --> 00:35:58,320 things 943 00:36:02,069 --> 00:36:00,320 it's great to be in the community here 944 00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:02,079 you know it's great to have like people 945 00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:03,520 in your shop that are really enjoying 946 00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:04,800 the stuff 947 00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:07,520 definitely like i can't walk five meters 948 00:36:11,349 --> 00:36:09,359 without people coming up and saying hey 949 00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:11,359 ganondorf i love your character i love 950 00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:13,200 your costume you look brilliant and we 951 00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:15,200 just have a conversation about all the 952 00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:17,599 stuff we're into look at and and what 953 00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:18,880 yes how would you describe the kind of 954 00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:19,760 people that are here because we are 955 00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:21,359 talking about the community what kind of 956 00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:23,119 people are sort of turning up here today 957 00:36:26,069 --> 00:36:24,720 because i know it's just like the 958 00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:26,079 regular people i meet around all the 959 00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:27,520 time but people who don't come to this 960 00:36:32,230 --> 00:36:30,000 kind of stuff thinks that it's like 961 00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:32,240 guys with beards glasses and nerdy guys 962 00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:33,520 that have never been out on a date with 963 00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:35,040 girls but it couldn't be anything 964 00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:37,200 further than that yeah well so not 965 00:36:40,390 --> 00:36:38,640 wanting to indict myself too much i 966 00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:40,400 would say most people are 967 00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:43,119 nerds but that extends beyond what most 968 00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:44,480 people think like when you think of a 969 00:36:48,550 --> 00:36:46,160 nerd you think glasses guy he's never 970 00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:48,560 been outside but like heaps of girls 971 00:36:52,790 --> 00:36:50,240 these days is playing video games they 972 00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:52,800 watch anime they get into sci-fi 973 00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:54,320 but yeah like it's not what you expect 974 00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:55,520 and it's like a day out with the 975 00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:57,680 community and sure we all exist online 976 00:37:01,190 --> 00:36:59,599 around with each other yeah but we don't 977 00:37:01,990 --> 00:37:01,200 often get to meet in that kind of stuff 978 00:37:05,430 --> 00:37:02,000 and 979 00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:05,440 no stupider than following a sporting 980 00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:07,280 team yeah totally i mean i've got 981 00:37:10,470 --> 00:37:08,960 friends from brisbane and perth who are 982 00:37:12,150 --> 00:37:10,480 here and like we're dressed as 983 00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:12,160 characters from the same game so we can 984 00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:13,520 meet up and everyone thinks that we're 985 00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:15,200 from the same place so 986 00:37:19,109 --> 00:37:16,960 yeah now is there some irony in the fact 987 00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:19,119 that you're a very strong anti-theist 988 00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:22,560 and you're dressed as a god 989 00:37:27,670 --> 00:37:25,280 can i go splitter splitter 990 00:37:31,990 --> 00:37:27,680 the irony is not lost in me um i would 991 00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:32,000 prefer to use the term double agents 992 00:37:35,750 --> 00:37:34,480 well there's a part that always happens 993 00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:35,760 at any of these great adventures that 994 00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:37,520 richard and i go on when we're mucking 995 00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:39,040 around carrying on doing something for 996 00:37:42,310 --> 00:37:40,560 the skeptic zone where we get to have 997 00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:42,320 our noms now normally dr raichi's here 998 00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:43,920 for this kind of stuff but 999 00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:44,880 i think she's attending to a 1000 00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:47,200 non-emergency somewhere else isn't she 1001 00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:49,680 yes she must be noms without dr rachie 1002 00:37:53,670 --> 00:37:51,760 it's a bit odd but but we are numbing 1003 00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:53,680 for her yeah well i'm sure you can eat 1004 00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:54,880 as much as three people if you really 1005 00:37:57,750 --> 00:37:56,480 want to richard i really wanted to hear 1006 00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:57,760 yeah but i gotta say richard has lost a 1007 00:38:02,950 --> 00:37:59,440 lot of weight lately because to be on 1008 00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:02,960 the one he he had to have a bmi of seven 1009 00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:05,200 before they let him on tv and uh it does 1010 00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:06,240 great he's now got the figure of a 1011 00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:07,920 twelve-year-old girl and uh and she 1012 00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:09,280 really and she really misses it and she 1013 00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:10,960 wants it back yeah the the um the 1014 00:38:14,950 --> 00:38:12,880 treadmill is my friend now i can tell 1015 00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:14,960 you yeah look secretly it has been for 1016 00:38:17,829 --> 00:38:16,320 many years people but look we're here 1017 00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:17,839 with some people that have got more than 1018 00:38:21,430 --> 00:38:19,599 a treadmill for their friend because 1019 00:38:23,430 --> 00:38:21,440 thousands of people around us are here 1020 00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:23,440 doing the cosplay doing the sci-fi thing 1021 00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:25,440 and when you come to these things you go 1022 00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:26,880 it's a lot of work to cover this but 1023 00:38:30,790 --> 00:38:28,480 after you've come here a little while 1024 00:38:32,550 --> 00:38:30,800 it's not just the stars or the famous 1025 00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:32,560 people you talk to it's the people that 1026 00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:34,000 are just into 1027 00:38:36,790 --> 00:38:35,440 into all the sci-fi stuff it's great 1028 00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:36,800 because you don't meet him normally you 1029 00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:40,560 don't and i was just thinking before 1030 00:38:46,150 --> 00:38:43,680 uh now we go along to mind body wallet 1031 00:38:47,829 --> 00:38:46,160 twice a year and it's full of people 1032 00:38:49,349 --> 00:38:47,839 this is also full of people and you 1033 00:38:51,910 --> 00:38:49,359 might say well this is more outrageous 1034 00:38:54,470 --> 00:38:51,920 or more fantasy well it's not because 1035 00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:54,480 everyone here is coming here to indulge 1036 00:38:58,870 --> 00:38:55,359 their 1037 00:39:02,550 --> 00:38:58,880 know 1038 00:39:04,470 --> 00:39:02,560 it's good fun and an escape no one here 1039 00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:04,480 actually really thinks that the vampires 1040 00:39:08,790 --> 00:39:07,200 are real and all the rest of it 1041 00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:08,800 whereas your mind body wallet there are 1042 00:39:11,829 --> 00:39:10,320 people there being 1043 00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:11,839 going on thinking the crystals are 1044 00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:14,560 healing them and so forth also we spoke 1045 00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:16,640 to brett from the uh atheist society of 1046 00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:18,400 newcastle and i made the comment that he 1047 00:39:21,910 --> 00:39:20,240 was dressed up as a god one of the gods 1048 00:39:23,430 --> 00:39:21,920 and i thought that was a bit ironic and 1049 00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:23,440 uh but he made the point that well you 1050 00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:24,720 know it's a bit you know just like the 1051 00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:26,160 bible here there's a wonderful fictional 1052 00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:28,000 world that everyone's living in but no 1053 00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:29,680 one's re i mean you don't find the uh 1054 00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:31,040 trekkies going to war with the doctor 1055 00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:32,720 who fans you know besides the fact that 1056 00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,880 win obviously you know that they it's 1057 00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:36,720 just everybody respects everybody's 1058 00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:38,640 other belief even though it's not a 1059 00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:40,800 religion there's religion like aspects 1060 00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:43,680 to it i i guess you could argue 1061 00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:46,160 something along those lines but 1062 00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:48,240 i obviously can't because i'm not very 1063 00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:49,440 bright 1064 00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:50,960 but basically at the end of the day as 1065 00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:52,480 long as you don't call someone who's not 1066 00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:54,960 spike spike you'll be okay 1067 00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:56,640 which just happened earlier um there was 1068 00:40:32,950 --> 00:39:57,359 a 1069 00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:32,960 one from the movie bought it in the 1070 00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:34,640 foyer on the way out and have like five 1071 00:40:37,030 --> 00:40:36,000 or six people comment on it normally 1072 00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:37,040 you'd wear it and people would think 1073 00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:38,400 like it might be a description of a body 1074 00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:39,920 part or something like that you bought 1075 00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:41,760 that when spaceballs came out the movie 1076 00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:43,920 really yeah because and the way they did 1077 00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:45,920 all the spaceballs merchandise is anyone 1078 00:40:49,670 --> 00:40:47,200 who's seen the movie the mill brooks 1079 00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:49,680 movie um basically they're making jokes 1080 00:40:53,109 --> 00:40:51,200 about merchandise all the way through 1081 00:40:54,710 --> 00:40:53,119 and when you went into the movie the 1082 00:40:56,309 --> 00:40:54,720 merchandise area was hidden so you 1083 00:40:57,910 --> 00:40:56,319 didn't realize it was there so the joke 1084 00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:57,920 wasn't and then when you came out you 1085 00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:59,760 see a great big spaceballs merchandise 1086 00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:01,440 thing so they didn't blow the gag early 1087 00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:03,040 on it was quite well done and all i 1088 00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:04,880 could afford was the badge well you did 1089 00:41:08,950 --> 00:41:06,640 well and i'm i'm glad to see you still 1090 00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:08,960 have it because i have seen no other 1091 00:41:13,349 --> 00:41:12,240 space balls memorabilia here at all 1092 00:41:15,109 --> 00:41:13,359 and uh 1093 00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:15,119 i think i like baiting richard questions 1094 00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:16,800 like this so you're saying that there's 1095 00:41:21,510 --> 00:41:19,760 more um scientific thinking and reason 1096 00:41:23,190 --> 00:41:21,520 at a sci-fi convention than there is at 1097 00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:23,200 a new age convention 1098 00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:24,880 what i'm saying is that there's more 1099 00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:27,920 scientific thinking and reason 1100 00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:29,920 yes absolutely of course absolutely i 1101 00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:31,359 mean again a lot of these people are 1102 00:41:35,430 --> 00:41:33,040 probably geeky nerds a lot of them are 1103 00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:35,440 housewives and house and husbands and 1104 00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:36,800 sons and daughters and all the rest of 1105 00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:39,200 it but they're all in just enjoying 1106 00:41:43,270 --> 00:41:41,760 their escapism their fantasy and look 1107 00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:43,280 one final point i'd like to make here 1108 00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:44,880 because there are many feminists who 1109 00:41:48,550 --> 00:41:46,480 listen to the show that are sometimes a 1110 00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:48,560 little bit annoyed with the fact that a 1111 00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:50,480 lot of the uh not just the skeptical 1112 00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:51,920 guys but the uh 1113 00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:53,599 the fan base they get quite excited when 1114 00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:54,720 women get involved in the whole thing 1115 00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:55,760 because they go hey there's women 1116 00:41:59,829 --> 00:41:57,760 involved you know and as the whole eye 1117 00:42:01,109 --> 00:41:59,839 candy issue which is the problem and 1118 00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:01,119 that's come up once or twice when i've 1119 00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:02,400 been talking to people here guys talk 1120 00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:03,359 they're really great that the women are 1121 00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:04,800 coming along here in the wild costumes 1122 00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:06,000 and i've had to correct them and say 1123 00:42:08,790 --> 00:42:07,520 well it's great that the women are 1124 00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:08,800 coming along because you want everybody 1125 00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:10,960 to be part of this community and um i 1126 00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:12,480 could see why feminists would get to be 1127 00:42:15,829 --> 00:42:13,680 annoyed by that do you think the 1128 00:42:18,790 --> 00:42:15,839 feminists just being pedantic richard i 1129 00:42:20,790 --> 00:42:18,800 think that is a problem well 1130 00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:20,800 that's a really good question because 1131 00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:23,280 just before on our way here to um get 1132 00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:25,119 these glorious um 1133 00:42:30,150 --> 00:42:27,760 soggy chips or eating i noticed a couple 1134 00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:30,160 of guys dressed up from the movie 600. 1135 00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:32,319 it was a 300. you're the spartan 1136 00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:34,400 warriors oh the hot spartans yeah now 1137 00:42:38,710 --> 00:42:36,720 there are some buff guys wearing hardly 1138 00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:38,720 anything at all and then you walk a few 1139 00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:40,480 pieces on and you see some women dressed 1140 00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:43,440 up like vampires wearing short shorts 1141 00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:44,880 that are shorter than the shorts you've 1142 00:42:48,870 --> 00:42:46,880 ever seen in your life so 1143 00:42:49,589 --> 00:42:48,880 i think it goes both ways i really do 1144 00:42:51,030 --> 00:42:49,599 yes 1145 00:42:53,270 --> 00:42:51,040 there's some eye candy around here but 1146 00:42:54,309 --> 00:42:53,280 there's male and female eye candy 1147 00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:54,319 okay 1148 00:43:01,030 --> 00:42:57,920 out and i bumped into a couple of actual 1149 00:43:03,270 --> 00:43:01,040 skeptic zone listeners as far as we know 1150 00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:03,280 both of them are here um now uh 1151 00:43:07,109 --> 00:43:04,720 now is there something we can do with 1152 00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:07,119 the show to make it any better 1153 00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:08,400 um 1154 00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:15,030 that's a very abc question to ask people 1155 00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:16,960 a tough question um what's your favorite 1156 00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:18,240 bit of it 1157 00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:19,839 oh man 1158 00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:21,760 this is this is the point where i admit 1159 00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:23,760 to just re-watch re-listening to 300 1160 00:43:26,309 --> 00:43:24,880 episodes of skeptics guide to the 1161 00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:26,319 universe and now i'm desperately trying 1162 00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:28,079 to scroll back 1163 00:43:33,190 --> 00:43:30,800 i'm like right no wrong skeptics 1164 00:43:36,069 --> 00:43:33,200 we don't do factual fiction no we don't 1165 00:43:37,109 --> 00:43:36,079 do the fact of fiction yeah that's true 1166 00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:37,119 is there something you'd like to see us 1167 00:43:40,230 --> 00:43:38,560 get involved in the show or something or 1168 00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:40,240 is it or actually 1169 00:43:43,109 --> 00:43:41,920 have we actually taught you anything at 1170 00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:43,119 all is there anything you've learned 1171 00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:45,839 from me is something um all around i 1172 00:43:50,790 --> 00:43:47,520 live in lang cove and there's ear 1173 00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:50,800 candling signs up everywhere and i i 1174 00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:52,400 can't get groceries without walking past 1175 00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:54,240 ear candling signs is is there anything 1176 00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:55,839 we can do about this 1177 00:43:58,150 --> 00:43:57,359 funny you should ask funny you should 1178 00:43:59,670 --> 00:43:58,160 ask 1179 00:44:02,150 --> 00:43:59,680 skeptic man 1180 00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:02,160 a skeptic lady dr rachie is about to do 1181 00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:03,760 a report for today tonight on ear 1182 00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:05,440 candles 1183 00:44:09,109 --> 00:44:07,520 that's that's really grand so like most 1184 00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:09,119 skeptics have their own woo that's yours 1185 00:44:11,829 --> 00:44:10,400 that's the one that annoys you the most 1186 00:44:13,589 --> 00:44:11,839 is you can well what about setting fire 1187 00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:13,599 to your bum that's just as relevant the 1188 00:44:16,550 --> 00:44:15,200 one that annoys me the most is applied 1189 00:44:20,069 --> 00:44:16,560 kinesiology but i have a bit of a 1190 00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:20,079 personal history with that one because 1191 00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:21,839 okay wasn't your 1192 00:44:26,309 --> 00:44:24,480 no no my orthodontist has irredology and 1193 00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:26,319 applied kinesiology but my mother just 1194 00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:28,960 applied kinesiology as well oh must be 1195 00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:31,680 great at christmas dinner oh yeah 1196 00:44:35,510 --> 00:44:33,280 oh here's my daughter the skip that she 1197 00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:35,520 thinks i'm a wacko she thinks i'm a no 1198 00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:37,200 she actually hasn't said it outright yet 1199 00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:38,800 it's like oh you think vaccines work i'm 1200 00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:42,240 like oh yeah oh my god oh boy 1201 00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:44,560 the vaccines in secrets 1202 00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:45,920 pretty much 1203 00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:48,079 now you know you know 1204 00:44:50,870 --> 00:44:49,280 i'm a bit of a believer in the crackpot 1205 00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:50,880 when someone says something like oh you 1206 00:44:55,589 --> 00:44:53,680 think vaccines work it's like oh it's 1207 00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:55,599 like oh yes yes 1208 00:44:59,589 --> 00:44:57,440 and you know what that gravity thing is 1209 00:45:01,829 --> 00:44:59,599 really catching on as well gravity is a 1210 00:45:04,150 --> 00:45:01,839 real thing that she believes in gravity 1211 00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:04,160 so it's it's just vaccines like it's 1212 00:45:08,230 --> 00:45:06,000 just the germ theory of medicine she 1213 00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:08,240 doesn't believe in gravity is fine 1214 00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:10,400 now the point that i was making we 1215 00:45:13,750 --> 00:45:11,760 mentioned with richard earlier is that 1216 00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:13,760 there possibly is more scientific 1217 00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:16,240 thinking and reason going on here at a 1218 00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:18,160 sci-fi convention than you would find at 1219 00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:21,280 a new age convention perhaps um yes oh 1220 00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:23,040 my goodness i've been to in one of the 1221 00:45:27,270 --> 00:45:25,040 new age like the mind body wallet thing 1222 00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:27,280 that was at botany bay before and it's 1223 00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:30,319 just crystals and incense and 1224 00:45:35,589 --> 00:45:33,760 make yourself feel better when no 1225 00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:35,599 they're just just there they are selling 1226 00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:38,079 you know un you know uh swords and 1227 00:45:41,190 --> 00:45:39,520 different shapes for a few few hundred 1228 00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:41,200 dollars a piece that look like they'll 1229 00:45:44,630 --> 00:45:43,040 fall apart the first time you know you 1230 00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:44,640 unsheath them too hard 1231 00:45:47,910 --> 00:45:46,079 and people are still buying them so i 1232 00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:47,920 don't know but no one intends you to use 1233 00:45:50,550 --> 00:45:49,920 them in a battle 1234 00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:50,560 no 1235 00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:54,160 that's right i think in a fake cosplay 1236 00:45:57,109 --> 00:45:55,680 battle maybe yeah and there's not 1237 00:45:58,550 --> 00:45:57,119 probably planning 1238 00:46:00,150 --> 00:45:58,560 there's a few sci-fi things about but 1239 00:46:02,550 --> 00:46:00,160 not as many as i kind of expected 1240 00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:02,560 there's no uh 1241 00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:04,400 no discovery channel or any of that kind 1242 00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:05,440 of business 1243 00:46:07,990 --> 00:46:06,640 oh there's sci-fi channels over there 1244 00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:08,000 but look i'll give you the uh the 1245 00:46:11,430 --> 00:46:09,680 farewell greeting from here it fits in 1246 00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:11,440 it's uh live long and need some jelly 1247 00:46:14,630 --> 00:46:12,880 babies that get stocked who and star 1248 00:46:17,030 --> 00:46:14,640 trek in together 1249 00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:17,040 see you later guys 1250 00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:39,190 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1251 00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:40,720 zone right that's it 1252 00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:44,000 let me see there's my 1253 00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:46,960 suitcase back here yeah passport 1254 00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:49,280 check um 1255 00:46:52,630 --> 00:46:50,880 trousers 1256 00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:52,640 toothbrush 1257 00:46:59,349 --> 00:46:55,520 mustache what's this uh 1258 00:47:02,150 --> 00:46:59,359 photo frogs oh skeptics badges oh it's 1259 00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:02,160 all falling up i'm ready i'm gonna zip 1260 00:47:05,510 --> 00:47:03,760 up that bag 1261 00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:05,520 in a minute after i clean up the mess 1262 00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:07,040 and head straight out for the airport 1263 00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,079 catch that plane to tam las vegas hope 1264 00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:12,000 to see you there and we'll be getting 1265 00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:14,079 lots of great reports lots of interviews 1266 00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:17,440 for upcoming episodes of the skeptic 1267 00:47:20,790 --> 00:47:18,720 zone 1268 00:47:23,190 --> 00:47:20,800 but until then 1269 00:47:24,790 --> 00:47:23,200 this is richard saunders signing off as 1270 00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:24,800 he runs out the door 1271 00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:32,069 you've been listening to the skeptic 1272 00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:33,599 zone